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	<title>Comments on: No Cheese with this Whine.</title>
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	<link>http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/2009/01/16/no-cheese-with-this-whine/</link>
	<description>Thaw before reheating.</description>
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		<title>By: Cold Spaghetti &#187; Blog Archive &#187; January Just Posts</title>
		<link>http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/2009/01/16/no-cheese-with-this-whine/comment-page-1/#comment-2770</link>
		<dc:creator>Cold Spaghetti &#187; Blog Archive &#187; January Just Posts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/?p=3713#comment-2770</guid>
		<description>[...] Holly at Cold Spaghetti with Chipped, Just Posts for a Just World and No Cheese with This Whine [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Holly at Cold Spaghetti with Chipped, Just Posts for a Just World and No Cheese with This Whine [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kitty</title>
		<link>http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/2009/01/16/no-cheese-with-this-whine/comment-page-1/#comment-2595</link>
		<dc:creator>kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/?p=3713#comment-2595</guid>
		<description>Ah, my husband whines a hella lot more than I. He just doesn&#039;t have a blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, my husband whines a hella lot more than I. He just doesn&#8217;t have a blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly</title>
		<link>http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/2009/01/16/no-cheese-with-this-whine/comment-page-1/#comment-2593</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/?p=3713#comment-2593</guid>
		<description>Thanks, everyone, for the comments.  

Randy: I think you absolutely nailed the &quot;Dad discourse&quot; -- it&#039;s about fighting for recognition of the role Father&#039;s play in childrearing.  As I said above, you can&#039;t limit one gender and not have an equal limitation to the other.  Culturally, parenting is in no way gender-neutral -- and the magazine knows it and plays into those strict binary roles.  It creates a tension, asks us to be petty (consider again the post&#039;s response to the initial question of &#039;whining&#039;), and builds a readership on those things.  We used to tell students to &quot;sex the test&quot; to see if a gender dynamic was being played out in something.  From your Parenting Magazine example, change the sexes and/or genders of the titles of the articles.  If it doesn&#039;t work in the same way, they are playing off a gender dynamic.  Granted, there are &#039;informational&#039; articles about things like immunization and breastfeeding -- but they are virtually always extremely bias to cultural imperatives and rarely fully representative of science.  (In the interest of full disclosure, I find Parenting Magazine to be terrible.)

I think you are exactly right that the contributions of Fathers struggling to work and be there for their kids is not well recognized.  And that there is some sort of idea that you&#039;re suppose to work 12 hour days 6 days a week and not see your kids grow up; that this is a sacrifice of a good father.  That should not be the case.  Our workplace is not designed for women OR men -- and it belittles BOTH of our roles as parents.  Parenting should, in no way, impact anyone&#039;s career.  And the contributions of parents should be recognized equally for what they are, no matter how the household is structured to support itself.  Instead, we play out these ridiculous roles and feel guilt, conflict, exclusion, or isolation when we work outside of those constraints.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, everyone, for the comments.  </p>
<p>Randy: I think you absolutely nailed the &#8220;Dad discourse&#8221; &#8212; it&#8217;s about fighting for recognition of the role Father&#8217;s play in childrearing.  As I said above, you can&#8217;t limit one gender and not have an equal limitation to the other.  Culturally, parenting is in no way gender-neutral &#8212; and the magazine knows it and plays into those strict binary roles.  It creates a tension, asks us to be petty (consider again the post&#8217;s response to the initial question of &#8216;whining&#8217;), and builds a readership on those things.  We used to tell students to &#8220;sex the test&#8221; to see if a gender dynamic was being played out in something.  From your Parenting Magazine example, change the sexes and/or genders of the titles of the articles.  If it doesn&#8217;t work in the same way, they are playing off a gender dynamic.  Granted, there are &#8216;informational&#8217; articles about things like immunization and breastfeeding &#8212; but they are virtually always extremely bias to cultural imperatives and rarely fully representative of science.  (In the interest of full disclosure, I find Parenting Magazine to be terrible.)</p>
<p>I think you are exactly right that the contributions of Fathers struggling to work and be there for their kids is not well recognized.  And that there is some sort of idea that you&#8217;re suppose to work 12 hour days 6 days a week and not see your kids grow up; that this is a sacrifice of a good father.  That should not be the case.  Our workplace is not designed for women OR men &#8212; and it belittles BOTH of our roles as parents.  Parenting should, in no way, impact anyone&#8217;s career.  And the contributions of parents should be recognized equally for what they are, no matter how the household is structured to support itself.  Instead, we play out these ridiculous roles and feel guilt, conflict, exclusion, or isolation when we work outside of those constraints.</p>
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		<title>By: pistolette</title>
		<link>http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/2009/01/16/no-cheese-with-this-whine/comment-page-1/#comment-2592</link>
		<dc:creator>pistolette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/?p=3713#comment-2592</guid>
		<description>That was an awesome post. I&#039;m working out a lot of issues with this. The reason I stopped making &quot;mommy&quot; posts is because my friends mocked me - saying it was always sad to watch a former academic and professional &quot;lose&quot; herself to motherhood. Lately I&#039;ve been really thinking, well, f*ck them, I&#039;m gonna write what I want. But for now I&#039;m too tired to reflect on anything I&#039;m doing. Luckily my husband thinks I&#039;m a goddess for freelancing with a 10 month-old while pregnant - so that always makes me smile when my &quot;friends&quot; have me down ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was an awesome post. I&#8217;m working out a lot of issues with this. The reason I stopped making &#8220;mommy&#8221; posts is because my friends mocked me &#8211; saying it was always sad to watch a former academic and professional &#8220;lose&#8221; herself to motherhood. Lately I&#8217;ve been really thinking, well, f*ck them, I&#8217;m gonna write what I want. But for now I&#8217;m too tired to reflect on anything I&#8217;m doing. Luckily my husband thinks I&#8217;m a goddess for freelancing with a 10 month-old while pregnant &#8211; so that always makes me smile when my &#8220;friends&#8221; have me down <img src='http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Stacy Owings</title>
		<link>http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/2009/01/16/no-cheese-with-this-whine/comment-page-1/#comment-2591</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy Owings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/?p=3713#comment-2591</guid>
		<description>Love this post Holly! The pregnant women in grad school get looked at like freaks.  I mean, so many of the women in law school with me were so freaked out that they wouldn&#039;t talk to me or get near me...apparently some really intelligent women out there think pregnancy is contagious.  Interestingly, most of the men were ok...except for the guy who told me that when he gets married and has children, his wife will stay home with the kids.  I was about to pop at that point, and too slow to smack him before he left the room.  This guy didn&#039;t even have a girlfriend, but I guess he had big plans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love this post Holly! The pregnant women in grad school get looked at like freaks.  I mean, so many of the women in law school with me were so freaked out that they wouldn&#8217;t talk to me or get near me&#8230;apparently some really intelligent women out there think pregnancy is contagious.  Interestingly, most of the men were ok&#8230;except for the guy who told me that when he gets married and has children, his wife will stay home with the kids.  I was about to pop at that point, and too slow to smack him before he left the room.  This guy didn&#8217;t even have a girlfriend, but I guess he had big plans.</p>
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		<title>By: Lucy</title>
		<link>http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/2009/01/16/no-cheese-with-this-whine/comment-page-1/#comment-2589</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/?p=3713#comment-2589</guid>
		<description>Nicely put.  I always say I am coming back as a man in my next life (ha! ha!)

Randy,

It is great you are making time for your family, I too am blessed with a great husband who has managed to provide very well for his family and be a part of his children&#039;s lives (who are now pretty much grown) but he always says &quot;he would not trade his &#039;job&#039; for mine any day.&quot;  My husband has always said, &quot;You are on 24/7 and I&#039;m glad I go to the office everyday because I would die staying home.&quot;  It is great to have a husband that understands!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicely put.  I always say I am coming back as a man in my next life (ha! ha!)</p>
<p>Randy,</p>
<p>It is great you are making time for your family, I too am blessed with a great husband who has managed to provide very well for his family and be a part of his children&#8217;s lives (who are now pretty much grown) but he always says &#8220;he would not trade his &#8216;job&#8217; for mine any day.&#8221;  My husband has always said, &#8220;You are on 24/7 and I&#8217;m glad I go to the office everyday because I would die staying home.&#8221;  It is great to have a husband that understands!</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/2009/01/16/no-cheese-with-this-whine/comment-page-1/#comment-2587</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/?p=3713#comment-2587</guid>
		<description>On the other side of the spectrum dads who pick up the gender neutral titled magazine &quot;Parenting&quot;, are greeted with an article titled &quot;Mad at Dad We love our husbands -- so why we do we get so &amp;@!#! angry with them?&quot;.  Finding a parenting resource that is not come across as Glamour or Allure for women with babies is next to impossible, there are so only so many time you can read an article where you are excluded from the word our without getting pissed off.  There are lots of reasons for moms to be mad at dads, but there are also plenty of reasons for moms to be thankful for their spouses.  Not to mention reasons for dads to be glad and/or mad.

Katherine does a lot of things for the house and baby that I do not, but as long as the baby industrial complex caters almost exclusively to mothers society seems to be telling me my role is to go out every night and leave the baby duties to mom.  It also diminishes the role of the dads like me that have slowed their careers, and put dinner on the table every night to make life with a baby work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other side of the spectrum dads who pick up the gender neutral titled magazine &#8220;Parenting&#8221;, are greeted with an article titled &#8220;Mad at Dad We love our husbands &#8212; so why we do we get so &amp;@!#! angry with them?&#8221;.  Finding a parenting resource that is not come across as Glamour or Allure for women with babies is next to impossible, there are so only so many time you can read an article where you are excluded from the word our without getting pissed off.  There are lots of reasons for moms to be mad at dads, but there are also plenty of reasons for moms to be thankful for their spouses.  Not to mention reasons for dads to be glad and/or mad.</p>
<p>Katherine does a lot of things for the house and baby that I do not, but as long as the baby industrial complex caters almost exclusively to mothers society seems to be telling me my role is to go out every night and leave the baby duties to mom.  It also diminishes the role of the dads like me that have slowed their careers, and put dinner on the table every night to make life with a baby work.</p>
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		<title>By: alejna</title>
		<link>http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/2009/01/16/no-cheese-with-this-whine/comment-page-1/#comment-2586</link>
		<dc:creator>alejna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 03:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/?p=3713#comment-2586</guid>
		<description>I really appreciated reading this today. I&#039;m feeling overloaded once again. I haven&#039;t even had the time or energy to whine about it all on my blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really appreciated reading this today. I&#8217;m feeling overloaded once again. I haven&#8217;t even had the time or energy to whine about it all on my blog.</p>
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		<title>By: chrissieroux</title>
		<link>http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/2009/01/16/no-cheese-with-this-whine/comment-page-1/#comment-2585</link>
		<dc:creator>chrissieroux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 01:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldspaghetti.org/blog/?p=3713#comment-2585</guid>
		<description>God, this is the best post by anyone, about anything, that I have read in a LONG time.  Thank you for this!  It hits home with me in so many ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God, this is the best post by anyone, about anything, that I have read in a LONG time.  Thank you for this!  It hits home with me in so many ways.</p>
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